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User talk:Gislef
Welcome Hi, welcome to ! Thanks for your edit to the The Big Snag page. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! Per Ankh (talk) ( ) 05:14, May 14, 2013 (UTC) . Why don't you try asking one of the other Admins; I'm sure they will know what to do. ---- Is there some reason you can't handle it, as the W13 admin? Otherwise, who would you recommend? Gislef (talk) ( ) 17:40, May 14, 2013 (UTC) There's a bunch of Admins who are online at any given time! Try Rmhanshaw158 or Prof. Draco. Per Ankh ED 17:56, May 14, 2013 (UTC) Just thought I'd point this out: That "greetings! Contact if you need help!" message is automatic. The username attatched to it is chosen at random. Per Ankh ED 21:25, May 14, 2013 (UTC) Well, yeah, but I'd hoped it would refer me to admins that can handle adminsitrative matters. Maybe you should consult with some of the admins so you can handle it in future? Oh well, I posted it to one of the people you suggested. Gislef (talk) ( ) 21:42, May 14, 2013 (UTC) You Rang? You called me? How may I offer my humble assistance?Prof. Draco (talk) ( ) 04:46, May 15, 2013 (UTC) There seems to be a serious plagiarism issue going on, which I describe here. It seems that for some time, folks here have been taking recaps I have written exclusively for TV.com and publishing them at the Wiki here. There seems to have been some attempt to at least acknowledge this in the past (see the reference code included in this entry), but even if that was still the case, it still wouldn't allow folks to plagiarize my material without express permission. I'd appreciate your help in resolving this matter. As far as proof that it's my original work, it may be as simple as asking the contributors in question if they took the material from TV.com. Alternately, I can provide time codes for recent recaps showing that they were at TV.com before they were submitted here. Plagiarism is not allowed here, correct? That's my take from the Terms of Use (You may not submit content to the Service that you did not create or that you do not have permission to submit.) I've also been through this on another wikia wiki, and it was confirmed that plagarism isn't allowed. Once we can agree the material is mine, we can move on to what to do about the plagiaism. I don't want to mass delete the recaps, since that would deprive the W13 wiki of some useful material. However, it doesn't seem right for folks here to receive credit for my work, or for me not to receive credit, either. (Normally I don't expect or want credit for my work on wikis. That's how wikis work. But when there's been a history of people taking credit for my work, as shown in the edit histories, then '''I ask that I be credited.) Thanks! Gislef (talk) ( ) 04:54, May 15, 2013 (UTC) :If you see something wrong, fix it. :If you cannot write a new recap yourself then source the place the recap was taken from. :Also, why do you call the recaps yours? From what I understand of TV.com's usage policy is that anything posted on TV.com belongs to only TV.com? 05:43, May 15, 2013 (UTC) :If you indeed spent the time and effort to write the recap yourself, then it is plagarism and is certainly against the rules. But I'm afraid there isn't much I can do. If you can find who is stealing them and resolve it between yourselves, that would be ideal for all involved. If he refuses, you can take proof to the high-up admins and report it. I'm afraid that's all the help we can really provide, but if you need help with convincing the plagariser before submitting the report, you are welcome to ask us. It may be a case of the plagariser simply not knowing he or she is doing wrong.Prof. Draco (talk) ( ) 06:35, May 15, 2013 (UTC) '''Felinoel: Well, because they're mine. Under TV.com policy, all contributors retain the rights to their original material.'' ("If you owned a User Submission before providing it to us, you will continue owning it after providing it to us, subject to any rights granted in the Terms and any access granted to others.") The material remains mine under U.S. copyright law. It's the same policy that Wikia has, actually. :"If you cannot write a new recap yourself then source the place the recap was taken from." Actually, as I noted, the Wikia terms of use forbid that. People can only submit things that belong to them or that they have permission to use. Providing a source is not gaining permission. :I'm not sure what you mean by "fix it". The only way to fix it would be to delete all recaps that are mine. If you're saying that's okay, great! Although some folks might consider that site vandalism. But if I have your approval... Or there's another solution I mention below. '''Prof. Draco:' I guess I'm unclear. Are you saying that as an administrator, you can't enforce the site's Terms of Use? Or do you need me to provide more information so that you can? I think you would rather handle it rather than having me go over your head to people who aren't as close to the W13 wiki as you are. :Yes, I would appreciate it if you or another admin could help by convincing the plagiarizer(s) not to post stolen material. I've found that having an administrative third-party handle it avoids unnecessary conflict. :But even if the plagiarizers stop submitting them, that leaves the question of what to do with the ones that are already on the site. If I report it to the copyright violation department, it's possible they may simply remove every recap. Which doesn't seem good for the site to lose all that material. The other solution is to add a credit/copyright reference. Do I have your permission to add links acknowledging my copyright, and to submit all future recaps myself? Gislef (talk) ( ) 07:09, May 15, 2013 (UTC) Oh, if it helps, yes, you can intervene and, if necessary, ban plagiarists who violate Wikia's Terms of Use. Like I said, I've been though this before. You don't have '''to do it, but it's within your power. My impression was that enforcing the terms of use is actually part of an administrator's job, and Wikia doesn't want admins to look the other way on plagiarized material. But I could be wrong: you might want to check with the the folks the next step up administratively and see what they say. I just don't want to go over your head, which is kind of rude. Hope that helps! Gislef (talk) ( ) 07:29, May 15, 2013 (UTC) There are also some recaps that are fine, such as Where and When. My guess would be that the theft issue came up around season 3. I certainly don't want to suggest that every recap here is stolen from me. Since I know how much work is involved, I can certainly appreciate the folks here who have done original recaps. It's the people who haven't that are my concern. Gislef (talk) ( ) 14:31, May 15, 2013 (UTC) I'd reccomend adding source references instead of a signature. That way, you'll still get ctredit and if anyone needs proof, a link to the original is right there. And if we you find someone adding your recaps without sourcing or claiming it as their own, report it to Per or another admin and they can take care of it. You're right in saying that it wouldn't be good to delete them. Prof. Draco (talk) ( ) 07:58, May 16, 2013 (UTC) Thank you for your help, Draco! I'll start doing it. My actually posting them also has the advantage that I can post them immediately, getting them up sooner since... well, I'll put them up as soon as I finish writing them. :) I'd still suggest that you or another admin might contact the most recent person responsible and ask them if they're aware that they are violating the Wikia terms of use. Like you say, it could very well be inadvertent. But simply bringing it up might be enough to make sure that you don't have to take care of it down the road. And me doing it could put them on the defensive. Gislef (talk) ( ) 12:26, May 16, 2013 (UTC) :I specifically said that to fix it, "If you cannot write a new recap yourself then source the place the recap was taken." 13:54, May 16, 2013 (UTC) :What if I didn't '''want '''my stolen material to appear here in the first place? The "fix" would then be to remove it. Hoewver, Draco and I have has resolved the issue. Gislef (talk) ( ) 15:47, May 16, 2013 (UTC) ::By rewriting it. 16:14, May 16, 2013 (UTC) ::Removal of the plagiarized material is something that '''Wikia '''requires. There's no "we'll only remove plagiarized material if the owner gives us a replacement" clause. If Draco hadn't come through, the fix in this case would have been for me to go over your heads, contact the copyright division, and have them remove the copyrighted material. They've done it before, they would have done it again, they fully support their Terms of Use. But like I said, I've been trying to avoid that, and Draco has agreed to give me credit so it's now a moot point. Gislef (talk) ( ) 17:44, May 16, 2013 (UTC) :::Which is why it was supposed to be sourced. You asked how to "fix" it and I told you how. I never said that it '''has to be replaced with something, I only said that that was one way to "fix" it. 17:51, May 16, 2013 (UTC) ::::Well, I'm not entirely clear that I can list myself as a source. Draco seemed to frown upon it. Presumably it's my choice how I'm credited, not his, if people here wish to use my recaps. Anyhoo, I'm always glad to discuss copyright, but it's a moot point. The Wikia terms of use is the issue, and it does not let someone submit material here without the owner's permission, whethey they list the source or not. I'm not entirely clear if the admins are going to do something about the person(s) who were violating the ToU. Even if it's just talk to them. Who knows what other wikis at Wikia they're doing the same thing? Thanks! Gislef (talk) ( ) 18:08, May 16, 2013 (UTC) :::::I thought the source was TV.com? Isn't that where you said someone got it from? I have seen numerous articles on many Wikia sites and even Wikipedia itself that use many, many sources, some of which are of books written by people who are now dead. I don't think those sources all were given owner's permission..? Can you link me to this rule? 20:03, May 16, 2013 (UTC) :::::I am the source and the copyright holder. Tv.com is a site that publishes them for me. Yes, at least two contributors took them from there, without my permission, and published them here. I don't know what Wikipedia's policy is. I only know that the Wikia terms of use here state that someone can't submit material that doesn't belong to them. Here's the link to your Terms of Use (You may not submit content to the Service that you did not create or that you do not have permission to submit.) It seems pretty clear. :::::But you really don't have to take my word for it, or my interpretation. Just check with someone up at the next level of management here, describe the situation, and ask them if plagiarism is okay. If it is, hey, then we can all head home: case over. :) :::::Like I said, I'll be glad to discuss copyright and fair use with you if you'd like. Off the top of my head, many of the sources you're stating could be public domain. Some sites may have the author's permission. Some, the author may have contributed themself to the site. Some sites may have different policies than Wikia. However, I can only point out that the contributors in question violated the policy at this '''site, in '''this '''specific instance. Gislef (talk) ( ) 20:26, May 16, 2013 (UTC) "I thought the source was TV.com?" What would the right answer be if you asked Stephen King, "What was the source of Under the Dome? :) Gislef (talk) ( ) 00:37, May 20, 2013 (UTC) :I don't know, usually sites like that state that anything hosted on their website belongs to them, like Wikia and deviantArt, anything posted on both of those sites are immediately the property of those sites and not of the person who posted them. Therefore your example Gisleaf does not fit with this situation. :Regardless of whether or not TV.com follows this very common practice, I think sourcing the direct webpage where the info was gotten from is sourcing enough, I'm sure if you insist we can add who the only editor of that webpage is but if anyone else edited that page I don't think we can list all of the editors. : 18:27, May 28, 2013 (UTC) :I contribute to several sites and none of them force a writer to give up their creative rights when they post original material. I checked Deviantart and they state: "No. '''At no time do you lose ownership of your original work by submitting it to deviantArt." Neither does Wikia, which has the standard disclaimer: "You also represent and warrant that you own or have the necessary licenses, rights, releases, consents, and permissions to direct the Company to copy, store, publish, display, and distribute your content via the Service." A contributor submits material and gives Wikia permission to copy, publish, and distribute it, but the contributor does not 'give up ownership. This legal arrangement is pretty standard in the web business. Otherwise, you don't need to add anything. Since the material was stolen from me, I have added a copyright statement to establish my ownership. TV.com is not the source: I am. Hope that helps. Thanks! Gislef (talk) ( ) 03:41, June 5, 2013 (UTC) :Also, you seem to be proposing that if, say, Stephen King posted a chapter of ''Under the Dome on Wikia, that Wiki would now own that chapter of the book and Mr. King would have no rights to it. I hate to disagree but... that's not correct. Gislef (talk) ( ) 12:38, June 5, 2013 (UTC) ::My statement about dA is about seven years old, they may have gotten complaints since then and changed their policy. ::I know that Wikia has this policy because I produced a very detailed map of the world of Avatar and put a tiny signature on the bottom of it which was then removed and I got yelled at and was not allowed to take it down because it now belongs to Wikia. I know this also because there are several sites on Wikia that try to leave Wikia for their own website and those users got banned or just weren't allowed to delete the original Wikia. ::As I said, as long as no one else edits those pages you wrote then I am fine with adding you too to the source, otherwise I am not sure what to do and now I am getting a Wikia staff member involved just to ask them what to do since they get paid to do this stuff and would actually know what is needed to be done. :: 13:59, June 5, 2013 (UTC) :: I appreciate your assistance in this. I would say that whoever told you to remove the signature was incorrect '''based on Wikia's own policy statement. Whether it was simply a local editor, or an upper-level administrator, would make a difference in whether they knew what they were talking about. :: I think you're confusing Wiki owning material, with an owner giving permissions to Wiki. You can't remove material from Wiki once you give them permission to use it. That's pretty standard. But that doesn't mean the original contributor forfeits their ownership rights. Wiki doesn't become the owner. They just have a very long-term permission from the contributor to keep their material on the site. No take-backs. :) :: Anyhoo, have them let me know if they have any questions for me. There's really two issues. One: the theft of material by the original posters. That was material that was not '''submitted by me and I did not give Wikia permission to keep a copy, so no such permission exists. It'd be nice if someone at least talked to the thief/thieves. Who knows who else they're stealing from on other Wikis? Two: '''I'm willing to let that material remain, and add additional material. However, given One, I feel obliged to protect my recaps with a statement of copyright. If that's not standard policy... well, neither is letting people post stolen materials. :: And I've already put the copyright statements in, and no one seems to be objecting. I suspect the vast majority of people don't even notice or would care if they did. So I'm not sure why this is an issue. :: Anyhoo, if the Wiki won't let me protect my stolen materials with a standard copyright statement (why would they object?), then I would ask that the stolen material be removed, per Wikia policy. If that doesn't happen, then I would contact the copyright division and have them remove it. Obviously, I wouldn't submit any future material, and I'd expect the Wikia to follow their own policy prevent people from submitting new stolen material from TV.com. :: Hope that clarifies things. Thanks! Gislef (talk) ( ) 04:22, June 6, 2013 (UTC) :::The Wikia staff will likely be posting in response here. :::Well... this did happen several years ago... Wikia also may have changed their policy. The staffer that comes here can also respond to that then. :::Umm... as I am still not entirely sure as to which descriptions you are referring to (I assume you didn't write them all over the past couple of years), if you can't remove it yourself can you link me to some of the instances? 05:29, June 6, 2013 (UTC)